Good day, CharterFolk.
I hope your week is off to a great start. Today, Andy and I are delighted to share a WonkyFolk discussion with Mike Kirst, Professor Emeritus of Education at Stanford University and the longest serving President of California’s State Board of Education.
Here is a link to the podcast and a transcript of the conversation.
You can also access the discussion here on Youtube.
We’re also available on Spotify, iTunes, or wherever you listen to your favorite podcasts. An archive of all past recordings is available on our website here.
It was a fascinating, wide-ranging conversation. After cracking us up about how he got his start working in education policy in Washington in the 1960s, Mike explains how he made it to Stanford and struck up a friendship with Jerry Brown, who asked Mike to serve as the President of the California State Board of Education in the 1970’s and again in the 2010’s. Across that arc of time, from both his perch at the State Board and Stanford, Mike has had the chance to help shape education policy at both state and national levels.
His latest efforts have focused on the importance of career-long professional development for teachers.
I also found it striking that Mike did not mince words regarding charter school policy in California, saying that “the changes that have happened since Brown left in 2019 are a tragedy.”
But that was just one of many great observations offered by Mike. Other topics we touched upon included:
- The design of California’s Local Control Funding Formula
- California advancing “Getting Down to Facts II,” where 20 research groups will offer suggestions for future education policy in the state.
- Prospects for “Science of Reading” success in California and across the nation.
- The importance of finding new ways to integrate K-12 and higher education.
As you would expect from Mike, the conversation dug in deep on many subjects. Below is a sample of the research, websites, and news stories referenced in our discussion. At the top of the list, I include a link to the Mike Kirst Biography Project, which highlights the range of policy matters Mike has worked on throughout his remarkable career.
- Mike Kirst Biography Project.
- Mike’s 2024 paper at the Learning Policy Institute entitled “Standards Based Reform.”
- Rand study Mike referenced: Translating Reading Science into Practice—Foundational Reading Instruction in Public Elementary Schools
- NEA website listing over 175 micro-credentials.
- State of Mississippi Science of Reading Website.
- EdSource article providing background about “Getting Down to Facts II.”
- The Getting Down to Facts Website at PACE.
- Andy’s Eduwonk post about the Trump Administration, reading, and Virginia ed policy.
- A description from the Shanker Institute comparing recent proposals in California and Massachusetts to other states’ changes in reading policy.
- A piece from Dan Willingham, cognitive psychologist.
- A backgrounder from the Legislative Analysts Office about California’s Local Control Funding Formula.
- William Ouchi’s book Making Schools Work, wherein he first articulated the Weighted Student Formula concept.
- EdSource overview of the original Weighted Student Formula calling for funds to flow to the school level.
- ACLU files suit against LAUSD for not directing LCFF funding to high need schools.
- CCSA’s summary of AB 1505 and AB 1507, laws revising California’s charter school statute.
- Dick Scott and Mike Kirst research on higher ed.
Incidentally, I should note that during the conversation I mistakenly stated that the original Weighted Student Formula proposal in California (later renamed the Local Control Funding Formula) called for funding to flow to the school level rather than the district level. That was inaccurate. The original Weighted Student Formula advanced by William Ouchi in the early 2000s called for funding to flow to the school level.
I extend a last thanks to Mike for spending time with us. Every hour I spend with Mike leaves me smarter on education matters. I trust you’ll find the same.